The pickups in Guild X160 Rockabilly guitars are DeArmond 2000s, and yes, this is about to get very confusing. If you’ve done even a little bit of reading about this topic, then your head is no doubt swimming with 2000, 2k, the other 2000, the vintage 200, and maybe that other company that’s making a 2000. Oh, and let’s throw the word Dynasonic in there for good measure.
Let’s talk some history.
By the way, I would like to personally thank Ben Cheevers from musicpickups.com (One of the most thorough DeArmond references I’ve seen!) because he supplied me with high-res scans of the entire 1965 DeArmond catalog, which is where this beautiful purple page is from. Compared with the original pic I had (which was by far the nicest I’d been able to find), this is amazing, so thanks Ben!
But wait; there’s more!
All of these pickups look very similar from the front, so it can be quite challenging to determine which model is in a guitar without turning some screws, and even then it can be tough if you don’t have any good references. Perhaps I can be of some assistance in that regard, because like most everything in my life, I went down the rabbit hole in order to learn as much as I could about these pickups. Remember kids, when you go down the rabbit hole you may meet (or become) the Mad Hatter.
Remember when I said that a lot of sources insist that there was a DeArmond 200 pickup? Well, take a look at this page from the July-December 1999 Guild Galleries magazine/catalog which states that the 2K single coil pickups updates the original DeArmond Model 200 which is found on some of the world’s most collectible vintage guitars. By the way, that’s the same freaking catalog that I referenced in the introduction that states on page 33 that the X160 Rockabilly comes with DeArmond 2000 pickups and then on page 42 of the same catalog it says 2k. It’s no wonder people are confused!
I should point out that I can’t tell you if the Westerly-made X160 Rockabilly guitars have 2Ks or 2000s unless someone sends me a pic of the back of a pickup like I’ve shown here. Sure, the catalog page from 1999 says that they have 2K pickups, but catalogs can be wrong as we’ve seen. You know, like how it says that the 2K is based on the non-existant 200. Furthermore, the 2002 Fender Frontline catalog I have shows on page 15 that the X160 Rockabilly (now made in Corona) has Model 2K pickups while page 29 of the same catalog says that pickups in that model are DeArmond 2000s. Clearly, the confusion is not limited to Internet forum posts. For what it’s worth, this Westerly-made X160 Rockabilly appears to have DeArmond 2000s in it.
The ’90s 2k (middle) seems to have flatter pole pieces than the other two which appear to have more bevelled poles. Aside from that (and I wouldn’t make a determination on that), there is little to differentiate the three pickups when viewed from the front. Remember, the middle one is possibly yellowed with age and the black one is black because it came from a Gretsch. Really, the only way to be sure is to pull them and look at the backs, so let’s go ahead and do that.
The 2002 pickup (top) has the adjustment screw bottoms showing through the baseplate, while the 1990s pickup (middle) has the pole pieces sticking out. The 1950s DeArmond 2000 (bottom) is quite clearly very different than the other two. While the modern Gretsch and TV Jones reissues look like the ’50s pickup at first glance, the tell-tale marking on the vintage pickup is the markings that state: DeArmond REG U.S. PAT. OFF and ROWE INDUSTRIES TOLEDO.O. U.S.A. molded into the plastic back of the pickup body.
How these pickups sound in comparison to each other is outside the scope of this article and is a subject for another time. Some other great resources for learning about these pickups and their variations can be found here, here, and a special acknowledgment to dbirchett over on the LetsTalkGuild forum who got it all right in his post here. By the way, if you’d like to see the internals of these pickups, check out this excellent thread over on Gretsch-Talk where someone did a teardown of the modern 2000 and 2k pickups thus proving visually that the 1990s DeArmond 2k is build more like a P90 than a vintage DeArmond.
To summarize:
- The DeArmond 2K from the 1990s is built like a P90 and doesn’t sound like the vintage 2000
- The DeArmond 2000 from the 2000s is built more like the vintage 2000 and sounds great
- The DeArmond 2000 from the 1950s is the real deal and looks like the valves on an engine from the back
- There is no such thing as a DeArmond 200
See? Clear as mud.
2023 Addendum
I do not have a set of these, nor do I have any guitars that have them installed, so I cannot make any comment on how true to the originals they sound, but based on the photo of the back they appear to be Korean-made copies of the DeArmond 2000 from the early 2000s.
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Mystery solved…..
Had a DeArmond Starfire Special some years ago. I really liked the sound of the 2K’s. IMO, they kind of sounded like there own thing, but they definitely leaned more toward P-90’s in tone. Clean, they were not as “percussive” sounding as a vintage Dynasonic. With overdrive or distortion is where they really parted ways from a vintage Dyna and sat firmly in P-90 territory. Not much experience with the later Fender made “2000’s” but a lot of folks over at the Gretsch Pages refer to the Fender made 2000’s as “Dyna Lites”.
Just to confuse things further, Guild has apparently reissued the later 2000 pickups, the ones that were in the Gretsch Historic and Electromatic series and the Guild X160 and they call them the Guild Dynasonic. Could they have made things any more confusing?
Martin used original 2000 in F series and GT Series plus acoustics too.
They can do everything from Jazz to Hard Rock.
The DeArmond and Gibson’s P90 the sound of 1950’s Jazz, blues znd rock.
Ok…those bolt on’s also.
“Just when I think I’ve proven that all 2ks have yellowish covers I see some with what looks like pure white tops.” For the record RE the Starfire Special, final year of the run (2001) for korean built DeArmonds saw minor cosmetic changes: 3 humps to 1 narrower headstock, tuners (standard to keystone), and headstock nomenclature. Gone was the “by Guild” on the now blank truss rod cover and rear headstock. The pickguard for some unknown reason wars a bit larger, but more to the point, and to add to the confusion, the 2K (?) pickup covers were BLACK…
And then there are the black front 2k pickups used at least in the Fender Telesonic.
Thanks for the article by the way, too much conflucting info out there and you are spot on.
Really helpful artical. I am about to pick up a DeArmond Starfire Special, 98 Cort serial, that should have the 2k’s. I’ve been searching for a great jazz guitar and my luthier steared me away from a 2015 Guild Starfire V, not sure why, but he told me to go after the DeArmond. The few clips I have heard that are jazz clips on youtube from that instrument nail the sound quality I am looking for. I haven’t heard it from anything else though the Gretsch high ends and the Guilds come close.
So thanks for this, would love to hear any clips people have of these in use.
Hope this works out. I have a strat for the rock sounds.
My Luthier was concerned about the Guild, he said go for those if they are the old ones, and heavily favored DeArmond.
BTW the P90’s just don’t seem to have the tonality to really fill out jazz to my ears, but the 2K’s I heard on you tube do, you can hear it.
Great info Gary! Thanks
My first “real” guitar was a 64 (not sure) Starfire III for christmas from my loving parents at age 13
I made my living with it at $2.70 an hour teaching lessons. I sold it to a friend a few years later
and just found a beautiful flamed maple 1998? Westerly X-170 but really want the twangy rich deep Duane Eddy sound. Any hope for me?
It has a Guildsby that previous owner added and I wonder if new Dearmond Dynasonics will fit it?
You remind me of myself with all my hobbies and interests! NONE of mine earn a dime!
Gary York p.s. I have a 63 Vibroverb with 15″ JBL D 130-f to play thru …soon as I fix it AGAIN:(
Hey there – thanks for the comment!
The X170 is a great guitar, but it won’t twang like a Starfire with DeArmonds. You can see how I got some twang in my X170T here: https://www.gad.net/Blog/2017/07/30/guild-x-170-t-mars-edition/
I was very interested to read your article about DeArmond model 2000 pick ups. I was given a pair of pickups many years ago and had no idea what they were. They seem to be a bridge and neck pair of Model 2000s. They both have “DeArmond REG. U. S. PAT. OFF” on them, and the taller one has “ROWE INDUSTRIES TOLEDO, O. U.S.A” on it, while the shorter one doesn’t.
I’d be interested in your feedback about them. Am I able to send you some photos somehow?
Regards, Colin
Melbourne, Australia.
Great read!
I bought a NOS set that would have gone on to a D28-E and I wondered if they really were from the 50’s or 60’s. Based on this information, now I know they really are old, and brand spanking new! It also came with 4 pots and all the leads. I snatched this set off Reverb for 500 bucks few years ago.
I haven’t been able to use them till now. I just bought a Stafford SF-S1, which is a relatively speaking, cheap knock-off of the original D28-E. This Stafford guitar has ladder bracing, 2 pickups, toggle switch and 4 pots already installed. I am going to take it to my luthier to see if he can switch it out with the NOS DeArmond set!
When changing a set of 2k pickups I seem to have disconnected the little solder sleeve from the internal coil lead! Yikes! Any idea how I can get in there to attach wires to the pickup again?
Thanks for this article. I’ve been trying to figure out what the story is with the “2000s” in my 2001 DeArmond S73-12 string. The 2001 Fender catalog (pictured in the link below) implies they are the reissues. They are certainly chimey enough so I’d be surprised if they were P-90s. The catalog says the black cover 2000s are recessed into guitars while the white cover 2000s are surface mounted. The black covers on the pickups on my guitar are surface mounted so there remains a degree of mystery. This matches Michael’s comment above.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/nkZdDaNsL8JhSxVz5
Fender catalog in question is 2001 Frontline: http://fcat.no/
I have a Martin GT75 which has another cosmetic variation of the 2000. Otherwise similar to the 1950’s model. Have you looked into the German made pickups from Ovations electric line of guitars that many misidentify as Dearmond? Thank you.
Sorry, but no. My interests lie only with Guild.
Excellent article on the mysteries of ‘Dearmond’ single coils Gary!
The tone freaks and ‘questors’ out here owe you for doing another ‘deep dive’ on our behalf ! Ever since noticing the differences between a 1950 Gretsch II; 1955 Streamliner; and my 2003 Country Club – I’ve been wondering… And I ‘ve been trying to sort out these contrasts without getting to much clarity… Until now!
And yes – I did get to play a Guild 1963 Starfire that featured the early version Rowe Industries “Dearmonds”! Just to further confound my mis-understandings about these pickups! Lastly, of course – my head was turned by a newly released Newark Street model guitar – also with ‘Dearmond’ type single coils!
Wow!
It’s a lot to contend with…
But thanks to your excellent research, I now I understand why these all yield such varied results – even when used in comparable positions and guitars! And this also clarifies the matter of ‘original’ versus ‘reissue’ for this type of pickup!
Thanks again.
The polepieces on the 2000 have beveled edges.
The polepieces on the 2k have a flat top, with just a slight rounding of the edge.
They both are “clean” underneath.
The orginal Rowe-DeArmond pickups and Gretsch “Dynasonics” have screws sticking down below the pickup, so you need clearance to mount them in the guitar. A nitwit “expert” changed some 2000s for Dynasonics, and when I got the guitar back, the tops of the polepieces looked all screwy. I had to hollow out the guitar a bit to allow them to fit.
You deleted my comments, genius!
Comments must be approved so they site doesn’t get filled with spam, but this one can remain for posterity.
I’ve got a DeArmond T-400 guitar in Tennessee orange, which I bought new in 2001. Unlike most T-400s I’ve seen, mine has white pickups. According to the catalogue (which I hope wasn’t wrong in this case), they are 2K, and the poles are indeed flat, like those in the pickup with the yellowish covers you’ve shown. But mine are completely and clearly white.